- This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 25/03/2021 at 5:39 pm by
Mark Doody.
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FBUK
@fbukIn recent years, a suggestion from some managers was to review the awarding of 20 points for a win on the pitcher side of the scoring. Some feel it is too high and so means fantasy scoring is weighted too much towards starting pitching. Or that wins should be replaced completely by another pitching stat.
To date, this is how pitching points have been allocated:
Win (W) – 20 points
Relief Win (RW) – 10 points*
Strike Out (K) – 2 points
Save (SV) – 10 points
Inning Pitched (IP) – 1 point for every inning pitched(*In the first season of using the Yahoo platform, it turned out Yahoo awards both a win and a relief win to relievers (30pts), so we temporarily removed the relief win category in Short Season 2020. Relievers who picked up the win were awarded 20pts like a starter. Going forward, a possible workaround might be to set 20pts for a win then -10 for a relief win so the net result would be 10pts.)
Options
- Reducing the points in the wins category (and relief wins and saves too?) is the simplest option.
- Remove wins (and relief wins?) completely, but we’d need to replace it with one or more other scoring stat (Yahoo allows plenty of options for which stats we could use).
- Keep wins but introduce a ‘negative scoring’ category to balance it out, like Earned Runs that deducts points for each earned run given up by a pitcher.
FBUK has never used negative scoring before as the ethos has always been to keep it relatively simple and focus on positive things that batters or pitchers do. For example, we don’t deduct points from batters for striking out.
What do people think?
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This topic was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by
FBUK.
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Baz The Bald
@baz_the_baldPersonally I would like to see wins ditched altogether. As the use of relief pitchers has increased and weird combinations such as one innings starters crept in wins has become an entirely arbitrary category which says little or nothing about a pitcher’s performance. It is not unusual on any given gameday to see a pitcher credited with a win despite being hit all over the park whilst one who has allowed but a single run go unrewarded. And that’s to say nothing of those relief pitchers who pick up a win having faced just one hitter! In the end a pitcher can certainly lose a game but it takes a hitter to win it! That’s made very obvious by comparing the stats of Yu Darvish and Dinelson Lamet, 4th and 5th in ERA last season (2.01 & 2.09 respectively) both having played 12 games. Darvish had a league leading 8 wins, while Lamet was awarded just 3, joint 70th among all pitchers.
For that reason I don’t see any real alternative to using negative stats for pitchers. Whilst the best hitters are indeed the best there is a very real sense in which the best pitchers are merely the least worst. They should get credit for outs (effectively IP) with variable bonuses for complete games, complete shut-outs, no-hitters and perfect games, and strike-outs, but they should be penalised for earned runs conceded and maybe also for extra base hits.
FBUK
@fbukHaving compared what some other points-based leagues do, here’s the suggestion for the overhauled pitcher scoring:
Out: 1 point – i.e. 3 points per Inning Pitched (IP)
Strike Out (K/SO): 1 point (combined with the out = 2 points)
Hit Allowed (H): -1 point
Walk Allowed (BB): -1 point
Hit Batsman (HB): -1 point
Earned Run Allowed (ER): -2 pointsHold (HLD): 3 points
Save (SV): 5 points
Complete Game (CG): 5 points
Shutout (SHO): 5 points**In the event of a shutout, we need to see whether (as I suspect) Yahoo awards points for both a complete game and a shutout (which by definition is also a complete game), in which case a shutout would earn a pitcher 10 points (5+5).
I feel like that is still relatively simple while now focusing on what the pitcher can control in their performance. Adding in the Hold adds an opportunity for relief pitchers to earn some points if managers choose to carry them on their roster.
Batting
To balance it out a bit, I’m also proposing including a negative scoring category for batters of -1 point per strikeout. Other than that, batting points would stay the same:
Home Run (HR): 5 points
Hit / Single (1B): 1 point
Extra Base Hit (EB): 2 for a double (2B) / 3 for a triple (3B)
Runs (R): 2 points
Run Batted In (RBI): 3 points
Stolen Base (SB): 4 points
Walk (BB) (excluding Hit By Pitch): 1 point
Strikeout (K/SO): -1 pointUnless I hear any major dissent, I’ll implement the above for the start of the season.
Cheers,
Tim-
This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by FBUK.
Rupert Russell
@ruperussA bit late to comment, but I am perfectly happy with the proposed scoring for the upcoming season.
It does seem to iron out some of the unfairness highlighted by Baz in his post and so a pitcher that pitches well should do better than one who puts up a stinker but still sneaks a win!
FBUK
@fbukThanks Rupert, it’s always good to hear positive affirmation! 😀 It will be interesting to see how the change plays out this season.
Rupert Henley
@rupert_henleyHi
New to FBUK this year. Very excited to be part of the league.
I seem to have been studying the scoring system for most of the day. It’s certainly unusual but should be fun. The thing that does concern me is the max. innings limit. 525 innings? That’s barely 20 a week. Should this be the min. innings limit?
FBUK
@fbukThe thing that does concern me is the max. innings limit. 525 innings?
Hi Rupert, this was a holdover from the short season in 2020. It’s now been updated to 1400 IP for the season.
FBUK
@fbukAfter a bit more reflection on the updated pitcher point scoring system (see above), it seems the scoring would now swing too far into the negative for pitching compared to batting. The -1pt for hits, walks and hit batsmen will be removed so the negative scoring will now just be -2 for earned runs allowed.
We can always review scoring again after this season.
Redbaron 07
@redbaron-07Yep good idea with latest changes.
On first appearances it looked like too many “minus points “categories for Pitchers, especially for those “hits” allowed, which can quickly rack up.
At best the very max, maybe “walks” as a minus points category along with earned runs.
FBUK
@fbukIt’s also been suggested that Complete Games (CG) and Shutouts (SHO) should be valued higher than the suggested 5pts each, because they happen relatively rarely over the course of a whole season (and any individual pitcher might throw 2-3 CGs at most in a season) and would be a measure of a pitcher having a particularly strong outing.
For comparison, a batter hitting a much more common solo homerun would earn 10 points alone for that hit (HR + R + RBI).
So we’ll plan to bump CG and SHO to 20pts each before the season starts.
Mark Doody
@mark_d104Hi. New to the FBUK game but have
Played roto and H2H for a few years now.
Just a quick comment on regrading CG + SHO.
QI don’t think we should go as far as 20 for each. Given that they are rarity, I agree it should be rewarded. However in your example you didn’t account for outs and K’s. the basic score for a CG is 27. It wouldn’t be uPnusual to pick up at least 10 SO to total 37. If your SP went the distance with 1ER you’re at 35 plus CG bonus. For a SHO too it is 37 plus 2 bonuses which could take it up to 77 points for one (very dominant) outing. A batter would need 3 grand slams and 3 SB as an equivalent.
Keeping them at 5 points seems ok. CG with 1 ER 40 points (example 10K, but up to 57) and SHO would finish at 47 (example 10k, but up to 64)
FBUK
@fbukThanks Mark.
Maybe meeting some way between the suggestions of 5 and 20 makes sense, e.g. 10 points each, which is what I had originally thought when first looking at the points changes. CG and SHO feel rare and deserving enough to warrant more than 5 while also not unbalancing the scoring in the same way that 20 points per win perhaps did in the past.
Overall, the big changes to pitching scoring after having the same system for years is going to be a bit suck-it-and-see this year but trying to get it as agreeable as possible before Opening Day!
Mark Doody
@mark_d104Thanks Tim,
Looks good. I had thought about posting a suggestion of 10 for each on review. However, I thought I’d had my ‘tuppence’ worth.
Good luck to everyone in their draft, especially those live drafting for first time.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by
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